--- title: "How One Referral Partner Can Change Everything (with Derek Morgan from Refer2u)" description: "💡 Summary Two coffees with a referral partner introduction that had sat untouched in a CRM for two years turned into $11.2 million in six months. Most…" url: "https://thepipelinepodcast.com/episodes/how-one-referral-partner-can-change-everything-with-derek/" image: "https://thepipelinepodcast.com/img/69345a21719602e2-share.jpg" --- Episode 6 · Oct 26, 2026 · 22 min # How One Referral Partner Can Change Everything (with Derek Morgan from Refer2u) - [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pipeline/id6812917691) - [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/0NNaebvWmU3WxkJtbI07Ur) - [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEX-KeqEG_jk) ## Chapters 1. 0:00 Why referrals get ignored 2. 1:10 The $11.2 million lead sitting in a CRM 3. 3:38 The unique zebra and clear messaging 4. 5:49 Two questions that start a referral partnership 5. 8:33 Why referral partners beat direct client referrals 6. 12:37 Getting a partnership off the ground 7. 13:25 The LASER value conversation 8. 18:20 Measuring opportunity cost in your network ## Transcript (0:10) Joseph Lewin If you're in sales or marketing, you have almost definitely heard people talk about referrals and the importance of referrals, but let's face it, it can be super hard to figure out whether referrals are actually driving business. And in a lot of organizations, they can almost be seen as a distraction from the work that you're doing. Welcome to Pipeline. I'm your host, Joseph Lewin, and today I'm really excited to be joined by Derek Morgan to talk about how to actually think about referrals and be able to track referrals effectively. He is a, a master at referrals. So Derek, thank you so much for joining me today. (0:46) Derek Morgan Great to be here, Joseph. Looking forward to having a chat (0:50) Joseph Lewin Yeah, and I don't know if you guys refer to us from the land down under, but you're joining us from the land down under in Australia, and we were just chatting about how it's your first coffee of the day and my last coffee of the day, so we're, uh, hitting it on different ends of the day here So yeah, I would love for you to just kind of set the scene with how should people in sales and marketing be thinking about referrals? Kinda how, um, yeah, how should they be thinking about referrals when it comes to driving pipeline for their business? (1:20) Derek Morgan In today's market, there's a everyone's got businesses hyper-focused on generating leads at scale, and they're not looking at how they can effectively use the leads and connections and contacts that they already have. So for example, I went to work for a business that I had actually introduced a referral partner to that business two years prior to me starting there. I went into their CRM. Nobody had followed up with that introduction that I made for them. I went and had two coffees with that consulting, um, contact, and within six months we wrote $11.2 million. So when you think about nobody did anything with that lead that was sitting in their multimillion-dollar CRM for two years, was an opportunity cost of $44 million. Um, people are so hyper-focused on getting new cold leads that take a lot longer to nurture. They're not focusing on the assets and the massive amount of value that's sitting in their CRM already, sitting in their existing network. (2:23) Derek Morgan So I think that, that mass marketing distraction is really hurting how they generate referrals because they don't have a system behind it. They're not focused on it. (2:34) Joseph Lewin Yeah, I love that. That, that story is, uh, is a great illustration of, of what people are missing out on, and I, I've seen the same thing. It's, it's difficult when you're in a sales or marketing role and the leadership team is so focused on, on how to get those, like, cold opportunities going because y- like, yes, if you happen to hit somebody who's in market right now who already understands the, the market and they've been doing research, those first sales calls feel really good because you're like, "Oh yeah, let's move into a sales conversation." But those opportunities are a lot more difficult to close. The competition is way higher. The, uh, the buyer's so much more educated already, so they're less open to hearing your expertise on whatever that topic is, and so they're far less likely to let you actually position your product in the way that your product's gonna be able to, to serve them most effectively. (3:30) Joseph Lewin They're just gonna say, "Well, how does it stack up in this area here?" But maybe that area is the area you don't focus on 'cause you think it's not, not valuable, and if you're only going for cold traffic, you miss all that, whereas if you're focusing on referrals, the relationship is completely different from the first conversation. (3:47) Derek Morgan Yeah. But one of the challenges for a lot of businesses is their messaging is so product-focused, and lots of competition in the product space. There's lots of competition in the services space. So if your, if your basic features benefits related value proposition, then it's very easy to compare people against your competition. And to your point, when they're going and doing their research, you're a unique zebra, and what I mean by that is you- you've-- every zebra is unique, but as soon as you put them all together in a herd, you can't tell them apart, and that's their defense mechanism. Well, that… 'cause that creates confusion in, um, you know, lions that are trying to prey on them. So if you've got a buyer who sees all of your competition, and you all look exactly the same, then it's very hard to get cut through, and that's, that's a real big challenge out there. People getting messaging out there that actually resonates, and it's exactly the same in referrals. (4:49) Derek Morgan Too often I sit in networking groups or breakout rooms online, and you hear these really weird and/or really generic pitches, um, and you just go, "Don't really quite understand what you're doing, (5:06) Joseph Lewin Yeah (5:07) Derek Morgan therefore how can I refer to you if I don't even understand who you are and what you're doing?" So getting clarity in a really noisy market is a huge, um, huge advantage. (5:19) Joseph Lewin Yeah, so on that note, I, I wanna actually ask you something different than I was thinking of asking you, which is, okay, let's say that, um, that you are-- uh, already do have some people that you can think of right off the bat where you're like, "Yeah, I could think of somebody that would be open to referring me. We have a good relationship," or, "I would be open to referring them, but we don't quite understand what the other person does well enough." 'Cause since you've been doing this for a long time, how do you recom- recommend that people do go about making sure that they're messaging clearly about what they do, and they're getting the right information from, from their network so that they can actually make good referrals and good introductions? (5:59) Derek Morgan Yeah. A referral from a relationship, and you need to build a relationship over time, but relationships can be built a lot faster is typically talked about in the marketplace. When we're doing-- We focus primarily on B2B networking and B2B referrals. When you're working in that B2B space, you're in business to do business together. You're business networking to business network, but nobody is going, typically going to refer to somebody that they've only just met. So how do you have a next step conversation that speeds up that know, like, and trust, builds that relationship really fast, so that you do have that level of trust that they're going to refer to you? And the quickest way to actually do that is have a referral, um, pay it forward mindset, and get a deep understanding of the person in front of you. Two simple questions. (7:00) Derek Morgan who's an ideal, um, customer for you? But more importantly, do you work with referral partners, and who's an ideal referral partner for you? Because if there's somebody in my network, then I know who I can potentially introduce you to." two questions and that conversation leads you into your one-on-one, sets up the opportunity for you to have that one-on-one conversation, and typically, it's much, much easier for somebody to refer a potential referral partner to you than it is to try and refer a client to you. Uh, it's much easier for your clients to introduce you to a potential referral partner their current ecosystem or world, a vendor, a supplier, an advisor, (7:50) Joseph Lewin Interesting (7:52) Derek Morgan than it is for that person to go, "Hmm- Do I want to put my contact client friend in the top of somebody else's sales funnel, particularly when I've only just met you at a networking event? So, you know, going to networking events expecting to pick up leads, that's where most businesses fall down. Go to networking events looking for potential referral partners, but don't just ask for an introduction. You need to have a value statement. You need to be able to articulate would somebody even wanna work, why would a referral partner wanna work with you? (8:32) Joseph Lewin Yeah (8:32) Derek Morgan for a client. then what's your value proposition to them, and how can that message easily pass on to a next person? So, (8:43) Joseph Lewin So let me ask you another question on that then. Um, So it sounds like you're saying it's not really focusing so much on trying to land a direct customer, but it's landing a relationship that then leads to maybe four or five customers or 10 customers because they're gonna… You're gonna connect with somebody who's a referral partner and, and they could potentially refer a lot of business to you. Um, I mean, obviously, if you get a direct referral, that's great. But kinda like you're saying, you're asking then the other person to stake their reputation on you when they don't know you at all. Whereas a vendor or, or like a potential partner relationship, if it doesn't work out, everybody's like, "Cool. Well, it was worth both of our time just to explore it as, as, you know, mutual potential, uh, partnership opportunities." So am I understanding that part of it correctly? (9:26) Derek Morgan Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It takes the pressure off. Let, let's use a client scenario. Client referring a colleague, a friend into a sales process, they're very reluctant to do that, and they're typically confused right at the start because they've got to do a, you know, a benefit analysis, or they've got to do a needs analysis and find that in the conversation, and then identify the gap and then bridge the gap, right? And then they've got to be comfortable that they're putting somebody into a sales process. They know they are, whether they… And, and there's a reluctance, there's a natural human reluctance there, back to your point, or mostly wrapped around status, right? when you're talking about a referral partner relationship, Joseph, if you introduce me to your accountant, I'm going to do XYZ benefit and add XYZ value for the accountant, which is something that the accountant's likely to be excited about. (10:23) Derek Morgan And if they're not, that's fine, we just, we won't collaborate together. But I'm not going into selling my services, we're going into a value-added collaboration process. (10:31) Joseph Lewin Yep (10:33) Derek Morgan is much simpler and therefore takes a lot of pressure off the person referring, you're giving that person exactly who you want to speak to, what's the value in that person speaking to them, and you're making it easy for that introduction to happen. You're taking the pressure off the person doing the referral. back to your point, one right referral partner can change the scope of an entire business or the results of a sales within a sales team. The right, uh, referral partnership system, strategy, model, whatever term you wanna use, can change the dynamics of an entire sales team or an entire business. (11:18) Joseph Lewin Yeah (11:19) Derek Morgan back to your point, when you get the right referral partner, it's not a one-to-one conversation like a client referring you to a potential prospect, and it's typically not a one to five or a one to 10. It's typically it's a one to hundreds type of referral relationship. So, you know, that's where, that's where we talk about one referral partner can change everything, 'cause you get one good referral partner with the right strategy, and they can be sending you hundreds of clients. Now, (11:52) Joseph Lewin This episode of Pipeline is brought to you by Podcast 2 Pipeline. We help you book meetings with target accounts through an account-based podcast. Instead of reaching out cold to target accounts and trying to get them to book a demo, if you reach out to those same accounts and invite them on a podcast, it makes getting in front of them and starting a conversation much easier. You're adding a ton of value to people on your target account list and starting that initial relationship with them at the same time. We've helped our clients book meetings with companies like Capital One, Netflix, LinkedIn, Amazon Web Services, Zoom, and helped them to drive millions of dollars in revenue. If you're looking to drive pipeline and revenue in your business, reach out to me, Joseph Lewin, on LinkedIn or go to podcast2pipeline.com. Yeah. So that tees me up for the question I, I really wanted to ask you. So just wanna make sure that I understood that and we're, we're aligned on, on that piece of it. (12:55) Joseph Lewin So then, 'cause I, at different points in time, I have worked on different referral partnerships and, you know, done a good job at getting these conversations started with people. But then I found that a lot of times with those relationships, somebody's gotta go first in getting getting the referral partner, your, your partner a client, right? And so then it's, yeah, it's one, you know, the first piece of it is actually having these conversations. But ultimately, what have you seen work most effectively to actually get one of those partnerships, uh, you know, referral partnership situations off the ground? Like, what is a good structure or, or what questions should you be asking of that referral partner that you've now been referred to? (13:36) Derek Morgan Yeah. Really great question. I actually built the referral marketing formula to deal with exactly this scenario, because lots of people in the marketplace talk about, oh, you go build the relationship, and it's the old build it and they will come, um, scenario. I.e. relationships precede, um, referrals. Yes, that is correct. But typically the way sales teams and business owners go about building relationships, the expectation is this is a really long-term process, and eventually six to nine months down the track you'll get a referral. Well, that's ad hoc. Um, (14:14) Joseph Lewin Yeah (14:14) Derek Morgan be the case, but nobody has the energy to sustain that at scale. It doesn't scale, right? It's all personality relationship based. when you build a referral marketing formula for your business, then you have a system and a process, and you know exactly what the next step is, and you can lead and drive the conversation, the relationship to speed up those referrals, bring them forward, and bring them forward in quantity. So coming back to your specific question, what's the framework for getting those referrals in the next step? Go and have a LASER value conversation with your potential referral partner. And what I mean by LASER, it's an acronym that, um, that we work with within the referral marketing formula, and it's about the core values, what's important to the p- person you want to partner with. Leads, acceleration of deal cycle, sales conversion, expansion of revenue, products and services, and retention of existing customers, re-engagement of past customers. (15:26) Derek Morgan When your partner value proposition ticks one or more of those boxes, you've got a partner program that speaks to the core drivers and objectives of your potential referral partner. So now it's a business development and, um, marketing, sales, growth, delivery, implementation conversation. It's not a let's get to know each other and see if we can refer leads. No, it's Joseph, this is the value… What's, what's… I know your business, right? As a partner analysis (16:03) Joseph Lewin Yeah (16:04) Derek Morgan understand the conversation. What's important to you? Yep. This is how I help you get what's important to you Would like to go on a bit of a journey, and let's unpack this a little bit? See how I can add value to you. So it's all about how do I serve you? Speeds up the conversation, speeds up the engagement, speeds up the relationship (16:25) Joseph Lewin So yeah, so let me just play this out, uh, and then, uh, I think that's probably a good spot to, to leave on, and you can share some resources with people about where they can find more about the framework and everything, 'cause I- there's a lot of value there. I'll just make it personal. When I've had these conversations with people, it usually does end with like, "Hey, we've had a great conversation. I get what you do, and immediately I can't think of anybody off the top of my head who would be a good fit for what you do, but I get it. It's cool," right? And then on the other side, you're thinking the same thing like, "Oh wow, this was, this was neat. Yeah, let's see what we could do," right? And then maybe even you do some webinars together or, you know, you invite them on your podcast or you do an event together. You know, you might even come up with the next action. But then for that to turn into a deal is a totally different scenario. (17:10) Joseph Lewin And then once I've passed a deal over to you that ends up turning into revenue and you've done that for me, now we're like, "Okay, this is serious. Let's figure this out." But until that happens, and, and then it rarely does, so then you're like, "Well, does this partner thing actually work?" But what you're talking about is almost treating that like you would a sales conversation where you're going, "Okay, what's the pain that this person's experiencing?" And like you said, maybe they need more leads themselves, and that's a huge issue. So then if I come in and I'm going, "Hey, I can help you solve that problem for yourself or for your client or, or whatever," now all of a sudden I'm speaking to, to pain. Instead of it just being this kind of pie in the sky d- in some future date we could work together, it's what is the core challenge in your business and then… Or probably in, in the partner instance it's more what's a core challenge that your customers are facing? (18:00) Joseph Lewin And then if that's a core challenge that I can help solve with my solution, then they're basically value selling to their customer and providing extra value by bringing me in, and they, they now are positioning it as there's this pain that I can't solve on my own for my clients. I could bring in this partner to help solve it. And so you're getting down to that instead of it just being this general, "Here's what I do. If you ever can find somebody who needs it, refer me in." We're getting ultra specific with that pain that their client's facing. Um, am I thinking of that in the right way? (18:31) Derek Morgan You're 100% on the money. And, and when you think like that, then you design a conversation around that, um, concept, and then you create systems and processes around that, then you can scale that, and you're talking to more of the right people more often, so you're doing less work but better results. It's a very highly leveraged process rather than all this mass marketing to cold leads that everyone's getting distracted with. And I'm not anti-outbound, but people are missing the opportunities that's sitting right under their nose in their existing CRM because they're not looking for them, they're not measuring them, they don't have a structure to unlock it. You know, so, uh, you know, it's the old saying, "If it doesn't get measured, it doesn't get managed." Nobody is measuring opportunity cost, so we created a, uh, network calcul- a return on or an opportunity cost calculator that helps you identify the value sitting in your existing network so that you can focus on unlocking it (19:33) Joseph Lewin Hmm. I love it. All right, so I'm gonna have one more non-business related question for you in a second. But first, I know a little bit about what you do and, and I think it ties in with everything you're talking about. So tell me a little bit about what you're up to and, and, uh, how people can find out more about you (19:51) Derek Morgan Yeah. Uh, the big focus for us right now is we've taken out the referral marketing ideas, which is our thought leadership brand. We've built out the referral marketing formula, which is a framework for, um, businesses to build referral partnerships strategically, and then we've created Refer2u as the operating system that helps them work very deeply and closely with referral partners to actually build and scale, um, referrals basically as a formula, systemize it, create a model around it, and then go to market at scale through partners. So yeah, that's what we're focused on right now, is actually Refer2u in the hands of more B2B business owners. (20:38) Joseph Lewin I love it. Um, okay. So when you're getting ready to hop in the car and go somewhere, would you rather drive or ride? (20:52) Derek Morgan Um, well, it depends what I'm riding. Uh, I would probably drive because typically get there fast and, um, and/or I wanna-- a long way away, so I'm taking the scenic route. It'll be one of those two options, either get there fast or get there with a view (21:14) Joseph Lewin And if you drive, you're gonna do that versus if you're the passenger (21:18) Derek Morgan Yeah. Exactly. But I had the opportunity to drive through the, um, a lot of the East Coast of the USA because both my daughters went to college in the US, which was a fantastic experience for them, and we went visiting a lot, so I got to see a lot of your beautiful country on that East Coast side (21:37) Joseph Lewin I love it. Yeah, it's gorgeous out there, uh, especially this time of year. Again, maybe like two weeks from now, all the trees are gonna be changing and yeah, it gets so beautiful going all the way down the, the East Coast that way. But, um, awesome. Well, yeah, Derek, we'll definitely put some of those resources that you mentioned in the show notes so people can find out more about you and, and what you're up to. And, uh, for everybody tuning in, thank you so much for listening to this episode. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, and we'll see you on the next episode **💡 Summary** Two coffees with a referral partner introduction that had sat untouched in a CRM for two years turned into $11.2 million in six months. Most teams chasing cold leads already have pipeline sitting in their CRM and their existing network. On this episode of Pipeline, [Joseph Lewin](https://www.linkedin.com/in/joseph-lewin/) talks with [Derek Morgan](https://www.linkedin.com/in/referralmarketingideas/), Co-Founder & CEO at [Refer2u](https://www.refer2u.com/), about building referral partnerships that bring referrals forward in quantity. Derek says a client referring a friend has to put that person into a sales process, and there's a natural human reluctance there. Introducing you to a vendor, supplier or advisor is a collaboration, which takes the pressure off the person referring. He shares the two simple questions he asks to find referral partners. He also walks through the LASER value conversation that turns "let's get to know each other" into a business conversation about what matters to the partner. Sponsored by [Podcast 2 Pipeline](https://podcast2pipeline.com/) **✅ What you can use by Monday** - Search your CRM for introductions nobody followed up on, and book a coffee with those contacts. - At your next networking event, look for potential referral partners instead of leads, and bring a value statement for why a partner would want to work with you. - Ask two questions in every first conversation: who's an ideal customer for you, and do you work with referral partners, and who's an ideal referral partner for you? - Ask your clients to introduce you to a vendor, supplier or advisor in their world, because that's much easier for them than referring a friend into your sales process. - Build your partner pitch around LASER: leads, acceleration of deal cycle, sales conversion, expansion of revenue, products and services, and retention or re-engagement of customers. **🕐 Chapters** (00:00) Why referrals get ignored (01:10) The $11.2 million lead sitting in a CRM (03:38) The unique zebra and clear messaging (05:49) Two questions that start a referral partnership (08:33) Why referral partners beat direct client referrals (12:37) Getting a partnership off the ground (13:25) The LASER value conversation (18:20) Measuring opportunity cost in your network **🎙️ About Pipeline** Pipeline is short conversations with GTM peers who are actually filling pipeline right now, so you leave with something you can use by Monday. New episodes weekly on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you listen. Produced by Podcast 2 Pipeline. **🏷️ Tags** B2B referrals, referral partners, referral marketing, referral partnerships, networking, CRM, pipeline generation, value proposition, partner programs, opportunity cost, B2B sales Podcast 2 Pipeline Start an account-based podcast We launch and run B2B podcasts that convert conversations into qualified pipeline that grows your business. 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